Curse

Arduin · Oct 02, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Obvious.Time investment.

I gather your an advocate for the cheapening of that.

Ok.

I've 'invested' as of now 4k+ hours into this game, and am really not bothered if the economy got to hell, every new player would be given a free set of FoW armor plus three weapons of their choosing and if people would get a free mini upon every login. Oh, and +1 on any of their title track for pressing space once is in the same category.

It wouldn't diminish my own accomplishments 'back in the day' one bit for me.

Gill Halendt · Oct 02, 2010, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Thus wasting time when you have to watch over them! It takes away attention from general strategy and co-ordination which a human team can proceed with.

[...]

Having 7 heroes would be balanced because a full human team generally takes longer to form than a 7 heroes team. BUT a full human team is A LOT stronger than a 7 heroes team so there are still pros and cons for both options.

Now, this is some argument:

- A person playing with 7 heroes would need to concentrate on the management of a whole team all by him/herself
- Dealing with the AI shortcomings slow things down and potentially expose the party to dangers
- The overall result is not competitive with a human party anyway

Much better than:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

If 7 heroes are imba what is 8 humans + consumables @_@

which is the comment that started it.

7 heroes and 8 humans are not comparable in any way. It's a single player setup - the best available, if they go ahead and implement it - compared to a 8-men setup, which is currently not "imba" at all, since its simply the game design at its finest.

How that could support the idea that 7-heroes are not "overpowered" tough is beyond me. "Overpowered" is not an absolute term, this implementation could well be "overpowered" from a single-player perspective, even tough globally not that competitive with a full-human setup.

Less absolutes, thanks: solo players would actually benefit from an undeniably stronger tool than before, a tool that is here being deemed as "overpowered" (again, for a single-player) by some detractors. Telling them that 8 humans are better is rather obvious and redundant, and doesn't really question their point in any way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

This already shows the vast superiority of a human team vs a heroes team.

Superiority which was never, ever questioned.

BlackSephir · Oct 02, 2010, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Obvious.Time investment.

Cool, that makes me a core player. I wouldn't be offended at all if AN gave us 7 heroes, on the contrary, I'd be happy.
So, nope, it wouldn't be a slap to the face, sorry.

Quote:

I gather your an advocate for the cheapening of that.

Why am I not surprised you're not so skilful at gathering. See, I'm one of the people who doesn't like things like perma SF, speedclears, pre-nerf Ursan and other stuff that is as gimmicky as it can get. If anything, I'm for making things harder to achieve.
Swing and a miss from you, once again.

fireflyry · Oct 02, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

I've 'invested' as of now 4k+ hours into this game, and am really not bothered if the economy got to hell, every new player would be given a free set of FoW armor plus three weapons of their choosing and if people would get a free mini upon every login. Oh, and +1 on any of their title track for pressing space once is in the same category.

It wouldn't diminish my own accomplishments 'back in the day' one bit for me.

Fully cool and I respect that.

Others here, including myself, think otherwise.Accomplishment is subjective and I'm really in your camp.Got my gear, titles, blah, blah a while back.I'm more into game mechanics, specifically in an MMORPG outside personal interest.

Seven heroes is just a bad idea.I have yet to read an actual argument or opinion outside personal interest, disinterest, greed and/or laziness that legitimises such a change.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Swing and a miss from you, once again.

Soz dude.I'd rather not.

aleaf92 · Oct 02, 2010, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Honestly, I use my other account to load up 3 Heroes and then exit game, so I can roll with 6 Heroes. I think a good amount of people already do this...

Lanier · Oct 02, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleaf92

Honestly, I use my other account to load up 3 Heroes and then exit game, so I can roll with 6 Heroes. I think a good amount of people already do this...

A good amount of people don't have two accounts.

Arduin · Oct 02, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Fully cool and I respect that.

Others here, including myself, think otherwise.Accomplishment is subjective and I'm really in your camp.Got my gear, titles, blah, blah a while back.I'm more into game mechanics, specifically in an MMORPG outside personal interest.

Seven heroes is just a bad idea.I have yet to read an actual argument or opinion outside personal interest, disinterest, greed and/or laziness that legitimises such a change.

Ah, so you are a champion, making sure other people can still have a sound experience of the game? Cool.

Lanier · Oct 02, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Seven heroes is just a bad idea.I have yet to read an actual argument or opinion outside personal interest, disinterest, greed and/or laziness that legitimises such a change.

While some people here may want it for the extra speed and such, there are many, like myself, that want it because it would make the game more fun. This may fall under the "personal interest" section, but there is nothing wrong with asking for something that makes the game more fun.

Aldric · Oct 02, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

....allowing 7 heroes.....now.....is a slap in the face to the core players and will wreck the economy.

Core player here but i seem to be missing my face slap, Did face slaps get nerfed ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

No offence but if you can't initially comprehend or foresee such an obvious and blatant outcome any explanation I could give is largely redundant.

Sorry but thats a bullshit answer, either backup your statement or accept that your wrong. "I said so" is never sufficient proof

Besides its pretty obvious that any "economy" still around is pretty much wrecked into virtual extinction

Mintha Syl · Oct 02, 2010, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I have yet to read an actual argument or opinion outside personal interest, disinterest, greed and/or laziness that legitimises such a change.

Instead I didn't read anything from you here that isn't pure trolling, showing off, elitism without ever giving a decent explanation, because you're just too cool for it.
LOL laziness? Yay, now controlling 7 heroes is lazyness while having other people to share the work with is not at all. With this mentality you should solo everything (and i mean solo, 1 member party) beacuse otherway it means you're too lazy.
Personal interest? You mean you play this game to help a humanitarian association, instead?

Charlie Dayman · Oct 02, 2010, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I really hope they go through with adding more hero slots. Of course there's going to be people who will resort to copypasta PVX builds - there's no denying that. But adding the option for more heroes will definitely give players a huge area to play around with imaginative team builds that are tweaked to their choosing.

I've always been a bit upset that I went through a huge process of upgrading my heroes: armor remnants, insignias/+50 runes, non-collector 40/40 sets or maxed weapons, and character/role specific builds, only to be able to use three heroes at a time. I would personally love bringing in my curse-wide MOW, Pyre who loves to blind and give both Morgahn and I ridiculous amounts of adrenaline, or Gwen with her AR ignoring damage and interrupts, etc. But at the moment, they're just not optimized to replace one of my three primary heroes (Morgahn, Livia, and Olias) who I have used to run in HM and earn multiple titles. I don't like switching out one of my main primary heroes for another at the risk of affecting team synergy. Additional heroes would eliminate that problem while also encouraging team-build experimentation.

Hell, if more hero slots are added, I'd probably dust off my Sin, Dervish and Ele and give them some much needed attention that's usually spent on my Warrior.

snaek · Oct 02, 2010, 08:26 PM // 20:26

all of the "core" players already left, theres no point in trying to please them anymore. 7 heroes isn't like a slap in the face because we've already been slapped in the face, kicked in the groin, and pushed to the ground. 7 heroes is more like a taunt saying "and don't get back up."

Arduin · Oct 02, 2010, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

all of the "core" players already left, theres no point in trying to please them anymore. 7 heroes isn't like a slap in the face because we've already been slapped in the face, kicked in the groin, and pushed to the ground. 7 heroes is more like a taunt saying "and don't get back up."

I am still here!

echo echo echo echo echo

NerfHerder · Oct 02, 2010, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

No offence but if you can't initially comprehend or foresee such an obvious and blatant outcome any explanation I could give is largely redundant.

Try me. Just use small words "so my head dont go boom."

Seriously though, if anyone can give me an example of how 7 heros will ruin the economy I would like to hear it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleaf92

Honestly, I use my other account to load up 3 Heroes and then exit game, so I can roll with 6 Heroes. I think a good amount of people already do this...

Good point. How does ^this^ +1 hero break the game exactly? I have asked friends to drop off some heros for me when I vanquish before. Nobody complains about people already doing this. Why? Because its not a game breaker.

Skye Marin · Oct 02, 2010, 09:56 PM // 21:56

All updates that introduce new features in the past have made the game easier, whether you've wanted them to or not. These are craved by the vast majority of the community, core and not.

This will never change. If it upsets you that much, you can stop playing, and we will continue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Seriously though, if anyone can give me an example of how 7 heros will ruin the economy I would like to hear it.

Having heroes is better than having henchman. A lot better. It will make a lot of things easier, which would give solo players the opportunity to play areas that would otherwise require a few other human players, or even a full human team. Take DoA for example. More people being able to play around in it whenever they want may cause certain gems to cost less, meaning that coffers and Tormented Weapons will also cost less. For players that farm in Human teams and plan to afford their high end things by selling Armbraces to other players, this is bad.

From my perspective, it's not that bad though. Here's why:

For all buyers, this is good. It lets players with less money do more.
It's okay if certain very expensive things become less expensive. "The Economy" is healthy when there is a lot of activity, not necessarily when prices are high.
Full human fast farming and speed clear teams will still be faster due to PvE skills and certain gimmicks.
It will increase interest in these areas as a whole, and allow more players to play more of the game.
It will encourage people to play more in preparation for GW2, which is good for Anet.
It may cause more players to join the game, causing more trading activity, actually helping the economy.
Players may have to re-outfit their heroes, helping the economy a little.

I hope that clarifies why some people think it will hurt the economy, and also why they are wrong.

Essence Snow · Oct 03, 2010, 03:23 AM // 03:23

It will NOT have anywhere close to the effect on the economy as SCs do. Tbh it's effect if any would barely be noticable. Even though I don't think they are needed...there's really no legitimate reason not to have them.

Lanier · Oct 03, 2010, 04:39 AM // 04:39

honestly... at this point in the game, even if 7 hero teams were to have an effect on the economy (which it wont...) who the hell cares? The economy has already gone to hell, and I dont think it really matters what happens now. Besides... its just an in-game economy. Its not like it was ever a big deal anyway.

Skye Marin · Oct 03, 2010, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

honestly... at this point in the game, even if 7 hero teams were to have an effect on the economy (which it wont...) who the hell cares? The economy has already gone to hell, and I dont think it really matters what happens now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldric

Besides its pretty obvious that any "economy" still around is pretty much wrecked into virtual extinction

I don't understand comments like these. How has the economy gone to hell?

Gold and Plat still has real in-game value, many people can buy many things, especially max damage weapons or near-max mods for a very fair investment. Tons of people still will pay a lot for prestige items, and investing time usually gives fair returns to a diverse set of farming options.

How are you measuring the success of this economy? Are you measuring at all?

Pleikki · Oct 03, 2010, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Fun fact: solo players, such as myself, either do stuff with h/h or don't do it at all. If it ain't h/h-able, I ain't doing it.
You think I'm going to get into a smelly pug full of bad players with even worse skillbars and no common sense because I can't do something? Think again. I never joined pugs. Not when there were only henches, not now when we have 3 heroes and I won't pug if they add 7 heroes. Simple?

And about this, I havent personally Pugged since 2006 either, but the fact is. Everything is easyly soloable even now, why would it need to be more easyer. Id rather want things be soloable. But also Harder, for abit of challenge ¨.¨, nowadays there aint any challenge left..

Tommy's · Oct 03, 2010, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

And about this, I havent personally Pugged since 2006 either, but the fact is. Everything is easyly soloable even now, why would it need to be more easyer. Id rather want things be soloable. But also Harder, for abit of challenge ¨.¨, nowadays there aint any challenge left..

My vote goes to extreme mode

Seriously though, with the right team setup (SoS obiviously being part of that, imba's are nice too, discord on the side) a HM vanquish these days is even easier then normal mode used to be in prophecies. I could seriously use some hard stuff. Stuff you might fail a couple of times at. And people saying then just go HM with bad builds, that doesn't work. Its not the same. Because you know you can easily do it, and probably done it already. Its just not the same...

Must say 7 heroes leave me cold. It would be cool since they look better then most henchman so I can have a purely esthetic team, but for other then that, it would only be a minor benefit. I would like it the first week, after that, well you can guess.. Everyone starts screaming for new content again.

And that it will effect the economy so much? It leaves me completely cold tbh. The people it will mostly effect (people with 100miliongazilion ambraces) have enough money already, so I won't give a shit about them. And it would make items people wanted but could never affort a little bit more affortable, but the people who couldnt affort them in the first place, probably still cant. I really don't care.